Opinion | Bob Rae, now a private citizen, tells it like it is. Sort of
For the first time since 1978, when he was first elected to Parliament, Bob Rae now finds himself without a so-called “important job.” His term as Canada’s ambassador to the United Nations just ended. Now, Ontario’s 21st premier and former interim leader of the federal Liberals is just Citizen Bob.
Let’s deal right away with the United States. Are they still part of the world’s club of democracies?
The Americans aren’t leading. They’re just doing it themselves. They’re on their own.
They don’t seem to care that they’re not in the Democracy Club anymore.
They have left that club. The departure from that club was marked for me, personally, the moment that the United States voted against a resolution that they had always supported on Ukraine, naming Russia as the aggressor, insisting on the principles of the UN Charter as being critically important and protecting Ukraine’s interests. And they voted against that resolution in the General Assembly. They voted with North Korea, Belarus, Russia, you name it.
How’d you react to that?
Badly. I said I can’t believe this is what’s happening. But then you have to suspend your frustration with the vote. And it’s much bigger than that now. It’s Oceania, East Asia, Eurasia. [George Orwell’s] “1984.”
Bob Rae, now the former Ambassador and Permanent Representative of Canada to the United Nations speaks at the General Assembly 58th plenary meeting in New York on February 23, 2022, on the Russia-Ukraine conflict. TIMOTHY A. CLARY AFP via Getty Images
Are we living in times that are more dangerous than even the height of the Cold War, when we had tens of thousands of nuclear weapons pointed at each other?
I think we are. First of all, there’s a lot of countries that are outside any nuclear agreement, North Korea, being the most notorious. But also India, Pakistan, Israel has a bomb, which has never been publicly acknowledged. Other countries in the Middle East are trying. So instead of moving toward greater disarmament, we’re moving toward greater fear. And a lot of people get killed these days. Nothing to do with nuclear war at all. Just plain, old fashioned, brutal civil war, or wars of aggression.
What was the best part about being the Canadian Ambassador to the United Nations?
For me, the best part was that at a time of life when many people are doing a whole lot less, I was able to kind of stretch the envelope a bit.
You’re 77 years old.
Yep. Born in 1948. It’s in my Twitter handle. (@BobRae1948). So, you never knew quite what you were gonna be facing every day. And that was very rewarding. And I miss it. I make no apologies for saying that’s part of the job I miss.
What’s the worst part of the job?
Well, there’s two tough parts. One is, you’re not just dealing with one bureaucracy, the UN, which is complicated enough, and 193 countries, some of whom are gonna be dead against anything you want to do. But you’re also dealing with a bureaucracy at home, with a complicated sort of political and bureaucratic structure that, if you want to be an effective ambassador, you have to work all sides of the street. You can’t annoy the officials too much.
You did try.
Well, no, I didn’t try to annoy them, but I did things that I knew, in the end, might not make them thrilled. The fact is, you don’t want to make enemies with anybody in that frame. You just can’t afford to.
I suspect you wanted this job because you thought you could go to New York, and make a difference, and that after five years, you could point to something and say, “Because of the efforts of me and my team, and other colleagues, this is better.” And my hunch is, I’m not sure you can do that.
I wouldn’t put it exactly that way. I think you can make a difference in a variety of ways. There’s a number of areas where, for example, in the Middle East, the way in which Canada was able to show an understanding of the basic needs of both sides of that terrible conflict, I think I helped to do that. I didn’t make it happen. It wasn’t just me, but I think that I was able to articulate into discussions with our government why a move was essential — the shift to a recognition of Palestine.
Did you ever have a conversation with your American counterpart during the time that Donald Trump has been president, where you said to that ambassador, “Could you tell your president to lay off this 51st state crap?”
I didn’t put it that way, but I have said to people as publicly as I can, and as clearly as I can that it’s hurtful. It is counterproductive. It makes Canadians furious, and it doesn’t achieve any results, and he should stop doing it. I even stated it from the podium of the United Nations to say that we are a sovereign country, and we expect to be treated with the same level of respect that every sovereign country is being treated.
(Lately, particularly since the U.S. captured Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro, Rae’s comments about Trump have become more pointed. He said on CBCNN: “The emperor has no clothes,” and that the U.S. wanted to “carve up the world … it’s crazy. What the hell is this?”)
If you ever did get a chance to buttonhole Trump for a minute, what would you tell him?
What I think I would probably say to him is, Please don’t forget the extent to which our two countries are linked together, and our two peoples are linked together, and don’t create a situation where that becomes more and more difficult for both of us. And don’t think there aren’t Americans who aren’t affected by what’s happening, because there are. There are lots of people that are suffering because of the way in which this thing has been allowed to fester, and it shouldn’t be allowed to fester.
You’re a private citizen now. You can go further. You can say whatever you want.
Yes, but becoming a private citizen doesn’t mean you become stupid. And one of the realities of my life is, yeah, I’m a private citizen. But I’m a private citizen that gets quoted.
Can you tell us whether either Prime Minister Justin Trudeau or Mark Carney, may have, in a private moment, taken you aside or called you and said, Ambassador, we really need you to dial that back 10 or 20 per cent.
Neither one of them said that to me directly.
They have people do it for them?
Yes.
Who does it?
Depends. Sometimes it would be ministers, or sometimes it would be their chiefs of staff.
And when you get that message, how do you react?
Well, first of all, I’m not thrilled. But then, at the same time, you say, OK, I work for you. That’s the name of the game. I did say to Prime Minister Trudeau, Look, if you’re ever unhappy with what I’m doing or saying, let me know right away. You just tell me. And he said, Of course, but I’m not. So go ahead.
Did you ever come close to resigning over something?
No. I knew there would be moments when I might have to hold my nose and vote and I would have preferred another vote. But the fact is, I wanted to continue to have an effect.
Finally, this may be the first time in almost 50 years that you don’t have a very big public job. How are you coming to terms with that?
That is a tough question. It’s a process. People say, What are you gonna be doing? And I said, I actually don’t know. I know I’ll be doing some teaching. I do want to write a book about my experiences in the last 10 years and share some of the lessons learned on where we are in the world today. I don’t feel really old. There’s still some gas left in the tank.